Podcast: The Real Reasons Women and Men Cheat
Episode 4
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Disclaimer: The materials and content within this podcast are intended as general information only and are not to be considered a substitute for professional legal advice or a consultation with a lawyer.
1. The Inside Track – Written Deposition Questions (1:09)singld143
If you are representing yourself during your divorce and you want to know what your spouse is going to say on the stand at trial, in the state of Arizona (Rule 58 of the Arizona Rules of Family Law Procedure), you can do a deposition upon written questions. (Check your local laws for a similar rule. Most states probably have rules that allow for depositions upon written questions.)
What this means is you can send your spouse written questions that s/he is required to answer. The great thing about written deposition questions is that you can reflect on the answers your spouse gives and figure out how you are going to handle the issues at trial. A “regular” deposition is more formal and, as a result, can be more stressful. On top of that, normal depositions can get expensive because you have to pay for the court reporter and the transcript.
2. Charles J. Orlando – The Real Reasons Women and Men Cheat (2:20)
Charles didn’t “set out” to be an expert. He wasn’t always such a “nice” guy. He had ulterior motives to use his “powers for evil”: persuasion and manipulation. As a young man, he used those things to his advantage in his romantic relationships.
Charles had an epiphany at 24 or 25 years old. He had met the “right woman,” but he didn’t have the skills he needed to maintain and put together a long-lasting and long-term relationship. He didn’t have the skills because his goal previously had been sex, not love. In other words, Charles had a lot of learning to do. He didn’t have it in him to put together anything solid in terms of a relationship.
(4:20) During his journey, he ran into a lot of men on the same path, as well as a lot of women who had just been in a bad relationship with a guy like he once was. Through that, Charles interviewed approximately 1600 people to arrive at some conclusions around the challenges in long-term relationships and marriages.
(4:50) Fast forward to today, with 2 best sellers out and an organically grown Facebook page with over 680,000 followers, Charles is doing real world research and facilitation of discussion about relationships on a daily basis.
(5:30) Before Charles was able to move forward once he met the “right woman,” he did a lot of reading, soul searching and making amends. He wanted to get to know himself in a very new way. (6:40) Meeting the right woman was a catalyst for Charles to make the change. (7:20) During this time, the “right woman” had her own work to do, as well.
(8:30) Charles exposed himself to a variety of information and figured out what to do with it. He believes growth comes from within. Charles thinks that coaches, therapists, etc. can put you on a path, but once they put you on a path, its ultimately up to you what to do.
(9:10) Charles is still learning and growing.
At the end of it though, he’s just a guy. What makes him an expert is a combination of research, knowledge and perspective.
For someone who is looking for guidance, on his Facebook page, Charles answers a couple of hundred questions each day about relationships. (10:23) If men want to know what women want and what they don’t want, there is over ½ a million women every day telling men on the Facebook page. Charles tries to give people perspective, and he does this for free. He has a fervent hope to help people through their relationship challenges.
“Why Women Cheat: A Married Man Goes Undercover on Ashley Madison” was a research project Charles conducted (11:57) that created a lot of problems in his own marriage. Charles didn’t cheat on his wife during this project, but he exhibited all the signs of a man who does. It was very ugly around his house for a while.
(12:53) The way it all started was Charles was on a plane thinking about the reasons women cheat. He had a variety of assumptions, but he didn’t have a way to test his hypotheses. So, he did what any tech guy would do who wants to pretend he’s cheating on his wife: He went online to Ashley Madison, where the tagline is “Life is Short, Have an Affair.”
(14:01) Charles wanted to figure out why women were out there cheating instead of leaving their husbands. He was seeking to validate his assumptions. To do this, he put profiles on the website, and one of those profiles hooked a variety of women.
(15:09) Charles parlayed 30+ steamy chat sessions into 3 in-person dates. The goal of the dates was to see if he could get these women in bed. One woman ended up agreeing to go to bed with Charles, but as she leaned in to seal the deal (with a kiss), he couldn’t follow through.
(16:13) Charles threw himself into his research during this project. Although this process was very seductive, he WAS thinking of his wife while it all was happening. The process was seductive because the ability to hone in on what someone is looking for in a relationship, appear to be that way and have the other person respond was Charles’ drug of choice when he was younger. During the research project, Charles became all those things he was as a younger man. The project time period (4 weeks) was very long because of the conflicts Charles was feeling, as well as the emotional disconnection between him and his wife. Their relationship mimicked a relationship where someone actually is cheating.
(18:27) The real reasons why men cheat are both emotional and physical. The emotional drives the physical. Too often people end up disconnected from their relationships for many reasons, but the disconnection isn’t necessarily bad. The fact that nobody is talking about the disconnection is what screws everything up. That ends up leading to resentment, complacency and further disconnection. If you bring this stuff up, you can beat the system and re-engage in your relationship.
According to the 80/20 rule, 80% of men cheat due to a combo of physical want and need; men are presented with an opportunity to have sex without getting caught, they want an ego boost, or they have sexual curiousity.
(20:06) Women cheat for entirely different reasons. They are looking to feel desired. They are looking for an emotional connection with their partner. Men…remember this: Women were women first. They were wives and girlfriends second. Women don’t remind men (that they were women first), because it is not quite the same if women have to remind their mates about this.
(20:52) The thrill of the chase is what a lot of guys like. So many guys like chasing and being chased. This is the “physical” side of things for the man.
(21:34) An established relationship will never be able to hold a candle to an affair. Affairs are “fun.” They are “vacation-y”. During an affair, a person’s brain is flooded with dopamine; this is our primal mating ritual kicking into high gear to make sure the human race procreates and continues to thrive.
(22:15) However, if you are having an affair, you wait just a little while, and your established relationship ends through divorce or break-up, your “new” relationship will then become an “established” relationship. The blinders come off, the “new” relationship is exposed in the sunlight, and it is going to be a very “familiar” relationship. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is nothing better than where you were, it is just different.
(23:13) Charles is one of the only experts and writers who thinks that the cornerstone of a relationship is NOT communication. Charles says “no” to communication being the cornerstone because of what communication means to people. Too often, communication means “talking,” when successful relationships need active listening and empathy. In Charles’ opinion, “communication” is the wrong word.
(23:46) During relationship “problems,” where you end up is in a place where you can be right or you can be happy. Too many people decide being right isn’t enough; the other person has to be wrong. Those are two different things.
(23:57) If you want to avoid divorce, LISTEN to what your partner says. You don’t have to agree. Just emphasize with their view because whatever they are saying is real for them. Try to work through the issue between the two of you.
(24:30) Something we were all taught when we were little kids was to treat others the way we want to be treated. This doesn’t work. It doesn’t work because people internalize and receive love very differently.
(24:52) For example, say you have a guy who is in an established relationship for 10 years and is the breadwinner. His wife is a stay-at-home mom. The guy shows his love by going to work every day and accepting all the overtime he can to make sure that his wife has the place she wants to live, there are clothes on the kids’ backs and there is food on the table.
(25:22) The guy doesn’t tell his partner that is what he is doing. He expects her to read his mind that that is how he is giving her love.
(25:26) The wife, on the other hand, sees him accepting all this overtime and thinks he doesn’t want to spend time with her. All she really wants is for him to come home early or at least on time so they can talk on the couch, alone as adults and without the kids around. She just wants to spend time together.
(25:44) Each of them feels slighted, unloved and before you know it, they are divorced because each of them receive love differently, and they didn’t know that.
(26:48) If you are in an established relationship, look at putting your ego to the side, making it OK to be vulnerable and talking to the other person about what you want. You have to be able to do that. Otherwise, it’s all for naught anyway.
(27:08) Put your sword down. Say what it is what you really want and need (instead of accusing). Say what really matters to you.
(27:44) The other person also has to put his or her ego down and understand that s/he might have to meet the partner somewhere in the middle. This person needs to be willing to talk about what “meeting in the middle” looks like. Otherwise, without that hard conversation, you are going to be having a harder conversation with someone like a divorce attorney.
(28:10) The Ashley Madison article got optioned for a feature film. Charles has written the first version of the screenplay. If the film gets made, his hope is that the person who plays him is taller than he is in reality.
(28:53) If you want more of Charles, you can “stalk” him on his website: theproblemismen.com. You can also find him on YourTango, Self, Men’s Health, Glamour and on Facebook. He is the only person who posts on his Facebook page, and you get him live there.
3. Thoughts From the Life Coach (29:32)
Today, James talks about being the “master of your moods, the godfather of your soul, and the chief of your belief.”